Humans are the dominant species on a dying planet, and were still clinging to the idea that we can think our way out, invent our way out, maybe even upload our way out.

But what if the solution isnt more mastery or more control? What if the only way to survive is to become something else entirely?

Mark C. Taylor is a philosopher, a cultural critic, and the author of After the Human . Its a sweeping, sometimes dizzying book, one that moves from Hegel to quantum physics to the ethics of soil and fungi. Its packed with hand-drawn diagrams and photos of dirt and discussions of philosophy and the history of technology and day-to-day dilemmas like having too many books for your shelves.

I invited Taylor onto The Gray Area to talk about how all this coalesces into a uniquely ambitious attempt to explain what it is to be human, and why we need a new story, a new self, and, really, a whole new way of thinking and being in the world. As always, theres much more in the full podcast, so listen and follow The Gray Area on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pandora, or wherever you find podcasts. New episodes drop every Monday.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

At the very beginning of this book, you write, How would your understanding of the meaning of your life change if you knew that next Friday at precisely 12 oclock midnight, the human race would become extinct? Why do you want us thinking about total extinction next Friday?

Because I think its a realistic possibility.